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You gave a strong reaction to Anurag Kashyap’s remark that The Kashmir Files should not be sent to the Oscars.
What I’d like to tell Anurag is, either you’re a very vicious person or you have a personal grudge against me. Perhaps you’re naïve or you have a political agenda. Wishing that a film should go to the Oscars is fine. I want Rocketry: The Nambi Effect to go to the Oscars. But nobody says that a particular film should not go to the Oscars. I would understand if you say that you don’t want political films to go (to The Academy Awards) and you want RRR to go instead. But if you are saying that The Kashmir Files should not go, then you’re playing a political game. And then people who don’t like me, also join the discussion and then you get a biased jury. I thought it was important for me to protect my film and the sentiments of all Kashmiri Hindus that are attached with the film. That’s why I replied.
Do you believe that the box office numbers of The Kashmir Files would not have been so big, had the general public not liked the film?
It’s the second largest viewed film in history. But, that’s fine, it doesn’t matter. A lot of films, which many people don’t watch, also go to the Oscars. But the Oscars are in March next year. This year hasn’t ended but still he (Anurag Kashyap) has started doing his thing.
How did you react to Canadian filmmaker Dylan Mohan Gray calling The Kashmir Files, “hatemongering, revisionist garbage of no artistic merit”?
This is all lobbying and politics. My political acumen is better than most filmmakers. Itna credit toh mujhe do (Please give me that much credit). I may not be a great filmmaker but I understand politics. Tell me, how did someone sitting in Canada notice my film? That means somebody is lobbying.
Do you feel that a section of the film industry is also working against you?
You see, earlier, the powers were in the hands of many people. There were many independent producers. Money was coming through various sources. There used to be immense pressure on filmmakers and producers that their films should perform well at the box office because they used to take finances on interest.
When the corporate studios came in, they were riding on the shoulders of a few big filmmakers and stars. They did not know what makes a good story. They started paying them a lot of money. Then the OTTs came and they started paying more than the film’s budget. So, if I am making a film at 150 crores and the OTTs are giving me 180 crores, why the hell should I bother about the audience or anybody else?
Then there are brand endorsements. The stars, even directors, do one film in 2-3 years. Meanwhile they’re all doing brand endorsements. The other day I saw Karan Johar saying in his interviews that he hasn’t made a film in a long time. But he has been doing reality shows, brand endorsements and fashion etc. So, 80 percent of the time, they’re doing things other than films. This gives them arrogance and they’re totally disconnected from real life. And in that process, they have started ridiculing their own audience. You know, when an actress says that she stands up for CAA, that’s fine, that’s her right and I totally appreciate it. But then she starts making fun of Hindus and Modiji’s followers. You’re upsetting them and they’re also your audience. That’s when your political priorities are taking over.
For me it is different. I make hardcore political films. Therefore, I talk about politics. But I don’t talk about romance, action or family dramas. That is not my expertise. I don’t have an opinion on that. Therefore, I don’t stand up for them nor am I against them. But these people started talking about every goddamn issue. But their personal behaviour was different. People saw the hypocrisy and mainly the arrogance.
Do you think that’s why Hindi films aren’t working at the box office?
I will give you an academic insight on why films are not working. Look at all the films that were released after COVID. Ranveer Singh’s film Jayeshbhai Jordaar was about female infanticide. But what did they do with the promotions? He was dancing with girls at a fashion show, showing his cleavage and all that. I am not against it. Please don’t misunderstand me. If it was Dhoom, I would have understood it. But you’ve made a film on a serious subject. Not even once did anyone from the team speak about the theme of the film. The audience didn’t know what the film was about. Same thing happened with Ranbir Kapoor’s film (Shamshera). Not even once did they talk about the father-son angle or the dacoit system.
It is my open challenge. You ask anybody on this Earth who hasn’t watched Laal Singh Chaddha, what the film is about. Nobody can tell you because they (makers) haven’t spoken about it. They were promoting the film with what other stars had to say about the film, they spoke about the songs and where they shot the film. But not even once did they talk about what the film’s story was about.
As for Anurag’s Dobaaraa. I watched his interview to confirm exactly what he said about The Kashmir Files. They were having fun, talking about the human anatomy and what not, why their film should be boycotted but not what their film is about. So, this arrogance has crept in that they can package the film and do flamboyant promotions, get the influencers to talk about their film thinking that their film will work the way it used to work before COVID. But in these two years, people have seen through these acts. There has been so much discussion on Bollywood after Sushant Singh Rajput’s death and people have also thought about this arrogance. That’s what is going wrong for the industry.
Do you feel the debates around nepotism have antagonized people in the film industry?
I think so. See, their power balance has been challenged now. You cannot blame everything on the public though. OTT has given employment to many young boys and girls, technicians and everyone else involved in filmmaking. When we entered this industry, young actors and technicians haath jod ke khade rehte the (used to stand with folded hands) like slaves. People wouldn’t meet them. Today, those actors and technicians are also busy and earning money. They’re also asserting themselves and challenging the power centers. That’s an important reason as well.
The public’s perception is another reason. After Sushant Singh Rajput’s death, the public has been criticising Bollywood with something or the other. People are sitting at home watching it on television. They will have their own interpretation and analysis. And somewhere when people analyse, they realise that these Bollywood people don’t care about us. Then why should we care about them? This has been the general sentiment. But I also want to ask if 3 Idiots was released today, do you think people won’t go to the theatre to watch it? They will watch it. Because the film makes you laugh, cry and gives you life lessons. That film was in connection with the reality of India.
Why has Rocketry worked without any publicity? Because people saw sincerity, so they went to watch the film. They liked the film so they told others about it. Rocketry made 50 crores at the box office; can you believe it? It is so good. The relationship between the audience and the stars is based on trust.
Has the secular fabric of the industry, which used to call itself apolitical, eroded now?
It was never apolitical. Somebody used to contest political elections. Javed Akhtar was a communist. His films were based on communist issues like trade unions, case in point Deewaar. Amitabh Bachchan was close to Indira Gandhi. That time Congress was fighting the communists. But they made a beautiful film. But today, if somebody is a communist and I ask him/her to act in my film, they refuse to act. It happened with The Tashkent Files and The Kashmir Files. Why did I take these bright young actors like Shweta Basu Prasad and Darshan Kumar? All the activist actors refused. But I have absolutely no problems with them.
It’s okay. You don’t act. You don’t cooperate. But then why do you sabotage a film? Why are you running a campaign against it? Their problem is that these are urban kids. They don’t understand the politics of India nor do they relate with middle-class India. So, they think whatever is happening is happening because of Modiji. They think it’s the Hindutva lobby, which is against them. On one hand you say that in commercial business, all that matters is entertaining the audience and box office. Then, are you out of your mind to piss off your audience? It’s the audience that they’re failing to understand. They need to introspect.
People say that the audience changed from pre-COVID to post-COVID phase. Do you buy that story?
I don’t buy that story at all. I can guarantee you that if The Kashmir Files had released before COVID, it would have performed even better. All these films, which have failed now, had they released before COVID, they would have earned maybe 20 percent more but, otherwise unka yeh hee haal hota (they would have had a similar fate).
One thing has happened for sure. The audience has been trained in the last two years. Now they judge a film and its filmmaker. If they think that there’s a gap between the filmmaker and the film, then they doubt the credibility of the project. Because of all the debates on TV, people have understood the nuances of how Bollywood works. Now they comment on it.
Does your political stance become a hurdle for you while making films?
Of course. Nine out of ten studios won’t work with me. Three out of five OTT platforms won’t work with me. I can tell you which 7-8 actors won’t work with me. There are two reasons why they don’t want to work with me. One actor quit our film after signing it, telling us that he’s working with some directors who are not happy with him working on my film. They told him it will affect the business of our film. So, the boy left.
Do these challenges still affect you even after the success of The Kashmir Files? Or have things changed now?
The situation has become even more polarized. It’s very difficult now. But I’m okay with it because it gives me the freedom to work with whoever I want to work with. There’s absolutely no pressure on that front. Because Pallavi and I have decided that we will make films of the same size as my previous movies. I have no ambition of making multi-starrer big budget films. We will make high-content films within a certain budget.
Will The Kashmir Files play at the Indian Panorama at IFFI?
I don’t know. It will be great if it does.
There’s been conjecture that a lot of audiences didn’t go to watch Laal Singh Chaddha because of Aamir Khan‘s past comments. Do you feel that’s what happened with his film’s poor box office showing?
No, I don’t believe so. Dangal had released after Aamir made those comments and it turned out to be the biggest hit despite the boycott conversations surrounding it. One thing I want to add is that I am not against anybody. All I want is that the film industry should be reformed. This fake business model is like a hot air balloon which has burst. The industry should come back to the fundamentals which is the story, writer, director. That’s what they should focus on rather than just focusing on the stars and their PR campaigns.